Summarize this content to 2000 words in 6 paragraphs in Arabic Ian McKellen What a lovely event this is. Is there going to be Morris dancing?Danny Leigh Of course I will be leading that. The last thing that I would like to do is talk about my job, but you’ve both made a film called The Critic. Anand, you directed it. Ian, you star as Jimmy Erskine, who is an acidic, acerbic, knife-wielding, grand master of the London theatre critic scene of the 1930s.IM Yes, very powerful.DL So, when the film comes out on Friday. Will you both be reading the reviews?IM Well yes, I do like to know what’s going on. It’s with some trepidation that you scroll through. But there are so many reviewers these days. Our story takes place in 1930 before everybody had a view that was known, and it was the professional critics who had huge power because their voices were the very few that were heard. But on the whole, critics have been very, very friendly to me and probably too friendly. You’re friendly, aren’t you?DL I’m always friendly. But how often does this happen, that you’re within spitting distance of a critic?IM Very, very rarely. But the Critics’ Circle is a very distinguished group of people, and every year they give a prize to somebody whom they like. One year they gave it to me. It was a lovely glass bowl. I use it for making trifles. DL Do you remember your first review? IM I was at university and I was in a production of Henry IV Part II. And the national critics used to come to Cambridge and review the undergraduates. Now, the Marlow Society that put this show on didn’t allow us to be known. It was all done anonymously, and Alan Dent wrote a rave review of the production and of me, and at the end, said: I wish I knew the name of this actor because it’ll obviously become a name to be remembered. . . And I decided there and then to become a professional actor. So, it was all with the encouragement of a critic. DL I love the fact that we’ve got on to the importance and value of critics. Anand, are you going to spoil the mood? Your first feature was Hilary and Jackie, the story of Jacqueline du Pré, played by Emily Watson, in 1998. Do you remember your first reviews? Were they as constructive and helpful as Ian’s?Anand Tucker We were lucky enough to get into the Venice Film Festival, and I was very excited. It was very glamorous with the red carpet and all of that. And then the next morning, the main Italian paper arrived. I opened the page to the review, and these were the words: “This movie stinks worse than the Venice canals at the height of summer.”DL I really wish I hadn’t asked. IM It’s significant that he can remember the exact words so many years on.AT But here’s the thing. I’m very grateful to that review, because I think, in retrospect, two things. One, it’s taught me, over the years of it being seared in my brain, that I am not my work. And the second thing is, I think, in retrospect, he was probably right, from his point of view, because the film was a very English film, and it expressed what I thought were universal themes, but through a very English lens, and obviously, I hadn’t done a good enough job of universalising the story. All the Italian press hated it. So, one has to listen and be humble.DL I’ve seen Hilary and Jackie, and it’s a truly fragrant film. But let’s go back to the idea of critics being useful rather than brutal. Presumably, in your early career, Ian, having that kind of support was almost like being given references when you’re searching for your first job.IM Yes, that’s a good analogy. Well, of course, actors spend their whole lives being criticised by directors. That’s the process. “Speak louder, speak softer, make it funnier, go quicker, go slower, move over there.”AT I’d rather say, encouraged, Ian.IM And so, when, at the end of the process, and with a film, the end of the job, suddenly you read reviews from people who have only seen your performance once, as opposed to a director, particularly in a play, who will have seen it numerous times in rehearsal, their views aren’t really relevant. And of course, critics are not writing for the actors, are they? You’re writing for your audience and our audience. So, I don’t take it too personally. DL Let’s stick with the good reviews. IM Have you written your review of The Critic yet?DL I’m writing mine over the weekend. I didn’t want to mention it.IM Yes, well, now, beware.DL Do you think you become the best judge of your own performance as you know yourself better?IM Well, it’s the audience who will tell you whether you’re acting well or not. In the old days, when I started out, you could smoke in the theatres. I don’t mean backstage. I mean in the audience. Every West End theatre had a little ashtray and a little striking point for you to strike your match and light up while the actors were acting. Now, the great trick was to stop them smoking. And if you had a love scene, it’s perfect, nobody smokes during a love scene. But the minute it’s over . . . DL They all lit up. It’s almost tragic that that’s lost now, as a benchmark.IM But that way, you judged your performance by how successful you were at stopping people smoking or coughing. That’s the other thing, no one coughed during Covid. I was playing Hamlet, aged 80-something, at Windsor with social distancing and masks. No coughs. Not one cough through three hours of Hamlet. And I noticed that now, we can have full houses and no masks, people have gotten out of the habit of coughing, and it’s a wonderful thing.DL What do you look for in a director? IM Well, I want him to protect me from my own incompetence. Some actors — Victor Mature was one of them — can’t stand directors, and I know some directors who can’t stand actors. And if you ask for advice, they say: it’s not my job. You’re the actor, get on with it. But particularly in film, where I feel less secure than on stage, I usually say: will you help me? Will you make sure I don’t do something badly?AT I think what’s amazing about coming to work with you is that, almost from the get-go, when we met, you said: I’m scared and I don’t really quite know what I’m doing when I throw myself off the cliff of this. And I found that wonderful because I don’t really know what I’m doing either. The best version of that is where you’re both able to say: I’m really scared, and I don’t know, and then both go, hmm, try this, try that. Oh, that feels good, or not. And then you’re just in a flow. You’re incredibly humble, and you’re not afraid to show your vulnerability or how uncertain you are, and what that did was, it invited all the other actors to drop [their guards]. IM Well, of course, Anand’s initial contribution to the success of the film was in getting together the cast that he did. Not that I was the first choice.DL Good grief.IM You’re never the first choice, and it doesn’t matter.AT Oh, I agree. I wasn’t the first choice, either.IM Peter O’Toole wasn’t the first choice for Lawrence of Arabia.DL That’s true, isn’t it?IM Yes, Albert Finney, who would have been much better. That’s only a view. He was the right size, the right shape, the right look. Lawrence was a rather dowdy little man, and Albert could play that very easily. DL I wanted to ask you more about Jimmy. He is a performer himself, he is playing a role. Do you feel that critics are often frustrated actors?IM Yes, but what Jimmy has is what I have, is what Mark Strong has and Gemma Arterton and Laurence Olivier and Judi Dench. He loves the theatre. He wants it to be good, and if it isn’t good, it’s painful to him. Well, I know that feeling. I’m glad not to be a critic and be expected to publicise my views. I should keep my views to myself, as I discovered of late.AT It’s clickbait, Ian. Ignore it.DL Jimmy is a complicated character. He’s a staunch defender of what he cares about, but he is also a bully. Such complexity, in life and in art both, feels slightly endangered. People want heroes and villains.IM Oh, yes, villains always have the best lines, of course. Richard III, Iago. Don’t play Othello. Iago’s the part. Macbeth, Jimmy Erskine. Yes, I’ve only really played one good person, Gandalf. Everybody loves Gandalf. He doesn’t do anything to hurt anybody else.AT He’s quite mean to the to the hobbits sometimes, though, isn’t he? He bosses them around.IM Oh, that’s nothing. You’re not criticising Gandalf, are you?DL The Lord of the Rings is such a fascinating counterpoint, because it was a film series driven by fans. There’s a debate currently about who really has the moral rights to drive a story. Is it the creative talent, or is it the fans? How do you feel about that? IM Well, that’s interesting. When I was out in New Zealand, starting off on The Lord of the Rings, it all began with me having supper with the cast. And Christopher Lee was sitting next to me, and he said: “I’ve always thought that I should play Gandalf.” That was my welcome to the movie. And I rapidly realised that there were millions of people who knew the books, adored them, and with some trepidation, were looking forward desperately to the films. So Peter Jackson and I started blogging, sending out messages to the world in a way that hadn’t been possible before. And so, we contacted these people, and I kept saying to them all, the Lord of the Rings you’re going to see is Peter Jackson’s version. Don’t expect it to be yours. It can’t be. And most people seem to have fallen for it. Most people seem to have accepted that his vision was all right. DL Having those kinds of direct conversations seems important to you. You’re reasonably active on Twitter. How do you feel about social media for an actor? IM Well, that’s just the way the world is organised at the moment. I don’t really participate much in it. And I don’t want to read reams and reams of horrible things about myself, or, indeed, nice things about myself. I can just do without it, really. I agreed recently to write my autobiography for a lot of money.DL I should hope so.IM So much money, I couldn’t refuse. I was working out all the things I could do with this money. Then the contract arrived with all the obligations of specific chat shows and interviews that I would give in five continents over one year. Longer, probably, than it actually would take to write the book. So, I’m not writing the book.DL Are you serious? You’re not going to?IM I’m absolutely not. It’s a plague of our lives that actors, and directors too, have to do all this publicity, and we get ourselves into trouble because we say things we don’t altogether mean. This festival is, to me, just a chit-chat among friends, and it’s lovely. But I think I’m doing about 100 interviews to sell this movie. And that’s not what I do for a living.DL Do you make it a condition with any of your theatre projects that they have to have a life outside London and reach the rest of the country?IM Well, I did with the last job when I was playing Falstaff in Robert Icke’s wonderful production of Player Kings. I said, we have to tour it. We can’t just sit in London, because I was brought up in Lancashire, and I was dependent, for my theatregoing, on the actors who would tour before or after their West End appearance. It doesn’t seem to me much of an imposition. And because of the accident I had on stage, I couldn’t do the four-week tour. And not too deep down inside me is the feeling that I let people down. So, I think, probably, after a couple of movies next year, I’m going to go back and play Falstaff again and go to the cities that I didn’t get to this time around.DL I’m heartened to hear that. And I hope you also know that you didn’t let anybody down at all. ‘The Critic’ is in cinemas from September 13
